Saturday, December 27, 2003
I talked to my high school english teacher today and introduced our idea to him. I didn't have anything concrete so it was hard to get real feedback (since there is so much we haven't decided) but his feedback definitely validated the existence of a desire for a lot of people later in life to do some teaching (but unable to because they can't afford a career switch, making retirees ideal) and the existence of a need for math/sci teachers (duh :) ).
He also reinforced the issue of classroom management being really difficult for teachers who have transitioned in from industry. He said that there is a school, possibly Cal State Dominguez Hills, that has a program for industry engineer types to transition them to teaching in an accelerated fashion. His impression was that those folks have a hard time with the transition.
He told me about three teachers he thought would be really into talking to me (Mr Graeber, Mr Bevins, and Duke and STEP grad whose name I cannot recall). The first two used to be in industry and switched to teaching. He's gonna send along their info soon.
He also encouraged me to send along our biz plan when me make it.
Other things? I called up my high school counselor -- now an associate principle -- but it's the holidays so she's obviously not there. I'll let you know if I hear back.
I'm coming back to Palo Alto Jan. 2nd. We definitely need to meet up in person and put some stakes in the ground so we have a specific program document to start getting feedback on.
He also reinforced the issue of classroom management being really difficult for teachers who have transitioned in from industry. He said that there is a school, possibly Cal State Dominguez Hills, that has a program for industry engineer types to transition them to teaching in an accelerated fashion. His impression was that those folks have a hard time with the transition.
He told me about three teachers he thought would be really into talking to me (Mr Graeber, Mr Bevins, and Duke and STEP grad whose name I cannot recall). The first two used to be in industry and switched to teaching. He's gonna send along their info soon.
He also encouraged me to send along our biz plan when me make it.
Other things? I called up my high school counselor -- now an associate principle -- but it's the holidays so she's obviously not there. I'll let you know if I hear back.
I'm coming back to Palo Alto Jan. 2nd. We definitely need to meet up in person and put some stakes in the ground so we have a specific program document to start getting feedback on.
Tuesday, December 23, 2003
a rant by andy rooney along these lines at http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/06/15/60minutes/rooney/main296839.shtml
"Second, end the teacher shortage. I'm talking shortage of both numbers and quality. Every one of us has had two or three great teachers. We've had dozens of teachers who were pretty good, and we've had two or three who were so bad they should have been fired. I'll bet good teachers would agree that there are a lot of bad teachers, too.
Now, here's my idea for getting more good teachers. There are 35 million people in the United States over 65 years old, and 90 percent of them used to work and don't any more. They're retired. They're finding different ways to waste the hours of the day until it's time to go to bed.
How did the idea of retirement ever get so popular? People ask if I'm going to retire. I am not going to retire, and I've never understood why anyone with all his marbles would. I may not have all of them; I still have most of my marbles.
One argument is that old people ought to retire to make room for young people. Dumb. It suggests there's a limited amount of work to be done in the world. There's an unlimited amount of work to be done. We'll never finish it.
It's ridiculous for a smart, successful, educated person to be playing games all day when we need good teachers. They have social insecurity.
There are something like 2.5 million teachers in this country. We should fire 10 percent of them, give the other 90 percent a big raise and hire a million retired people to add to their numbers.
A person 65 years old might teach for 15 or 20 years. They'd have something to offer young students that the students can't get from anyone else, because there are things you can only know by having lived a long time. "
"Second, end the teacher shortage. I'm talking shortage of both numbers and quality. Every one of us has had two or three great teachers. We've had dozens of teachers who were pretty good, and we've had two or three who were so bad they should have been fired. I'll bet good teachers would agree that there are a lot of bad teachers, too.
Now, here's my idea for getting more good teachers. There are 35 million people in the United States over 65 years old, and 90 percent of them used to work and don't any more. They're retired. They're finding different ways to waste the hours of the day until it's time to go to bed.
How did the idea of retirement ever get so popular? People ask if I'm going to retire. I am not going to retire, and I've never understood why anyone with all his marbles would. I may not have all of them; I still have most of my marbles.
One argument is that old people ought to retire to make room for young people. Dumb. It suggests there's a limited amount of work to be done in the world. There's an unlimited amount of work to be done. We'll never finish it.
It's ridiculous for a smart, successful, educated person to be playing games all day when we need good teachers. They have social insecurity.
There are something like 2.5 million teachers in this country. We should fire 10 percent of them, give the other 90 percent a big raise and hire a million retired people to add to their numbers.
A person 65 years old might teach for 15 or 20 years. They'd have something to offer young students that the students can't get from anyone else, because there are things you can only know by having lived a long time. "
Some links to stuff regarding retired military teaching program:
http://www.swt.edu/cpm/hobbyscorner/ret_mil.html (old - 1991, but good overview as well as compensation ideas --> e.g. giving better retirement options)
http://www.proudtoserveagain.com/pages/808014/index.htm outlines the Troops to Teachers Program
what i think it's saying is that they pay the veterans regular salary plus possibly
- Stipends of up to $5K are available to reimburse costs associated with becoming certified to teach. Recipients of these stipends must agree to teach for three years in a school located in a "high-need" district.
-Bonuses of $10K are available to those who agree to teach for three years in a school that serves a high percentage of students from low-income families.
Does anyone have contacts in school districts?
http://www.swt.edu/cpm/hobbyscorner/ret_mil.html (old - 1991, but good overview as well as compensation ideas --> e.g. giving better retirement options)
http://www.proudtoserveagain.com/pages/808014/index.htm outlines the Troops to Teachers Program
what i think it's saying is that they pay the veterans regular salary plus possibly
- Stipends of up to $5K are available to reimburse costs associated with becoming certified to teach. Recipients of these stipends must agree to teach for three years in a school located in a "high-need" district.
-Bonuses of $10K are available to those who agree to teach for three years in a school that serves a high percentage of students from low-income families.
Does anyone have contacts in school districts?
Phew. All the e-mails posted. Now for new content. :) This is so Scott-ish.
Donielle, that article is great. Some points that it makes that could be
relevant in our situation:
-Science, mathematics, special education, and other teachers with rare
skills could be employed by independent organizations, which would be
manpower vendors, providing teachers on a contract basis. P. 12
-there's also a discussion of how benefit limitations encourage senior
teachers to retire in their mid-50s and more flexible benefit plans for
them p.12-13
-this is maybe minutely related, if we were to just discuss how to
improve science and math courses, but there is also the mention of
complete courses that are sold, like online and stuff. That's pretty
neat. P 13
- Roma
relevant in our situation:
-Science, mathematics, special education, and other teachers with rare
skills could be employed by independent organizations, which would be
manpower vendors, providing teachers on a contract basis. P. 12
-there's also a discussion of how benefit limitations encourage senior
teachers to retire in their mid-50s and more flexible benefit plans for
them p.12-13
-this is maybe minutely related, if we were to just discuss how to
improve science and math courses, but there is also the mention of
complete courses that are sold, like online and stuff. That's pretty
neat. P 13
- Roma
The numbers are definitely important in order to paint a clear picture
of what is possible. If you are targeting people in their mid 50's, I
think you'll have a lot more flexibility in terms of mobility, knowledge
set and tolerance for bratty kids :-)
- Pedram
of what is possible. If you are targeting people in their mid 50's, I
think you'll have a lot more flexibility in terms of mobility, knowledge
set and tolerance for bratty kids :-)
- Pedram
Definitely important things to think about. But there are also people like
my dad - mechanical engineer, successful career, ready to retire and play
golf but craves activity - and my uncle, chemical engineer, facing early
retirement because company is shrinking - who are totally physically
capable. They're only in their mid-50s. If we could even get those types of
folks in the classroom *first*, and then extend the reach to accomodating
those with less-ideal constitutions, we could probably have a big impact .I
need to actually research the numbers.
The energy level is definitely something. I'd actually thought high school
would require less chasing around than the younger grades, but we totally
need to research that. I really have no idea. :)
Key: there is LOTS of research to do to understand the needs of schools and
the mindsets and needs of retirees.
Thanks for the brain dump! I've cc:ed a list of socially entrepreneurial
mayfield fellows. We've been discussing this on our list. You can join the
list if you want. MFPers, this is my friend Pedram, MS CS 03, currently at
Microsoft research in HCI, possibly at Stanford again next year.
~lilly
my dad - mechanical engineer, successful career, ready to retire and play
golf but craves activity - and my uncle, chemical engineer, facing early
retirement because company is shrinking - who are totally physically
capable. They're only in their mid-50s. If we could even get those types of
folks in the classroom *first*, and then extend the reach to accomodating
those with less-ideal constitutions, we could probably have a big impact .I
need to actually research the numbers.
The energy level is definitely something. I'd actually thought high school
would require less chasing around than the younger grades, but we totally
need to research that. I really have no idea. :)
Key: there is LOTS of research to do to understand the needs of schools and
the mindsets and needs of retirees.
Thanks for the brain dump! I've cc:ed a list of socially entrepreneurial
mayfield fellows. We've been discussing this on our list. You can join the
list if you want. MFPers, this is my friend Pedram, MS CS 03, currently at
Microsoft research in HCI, possibly at Stanford again next year.
~lilly
Where can we get numbers on like
numbers of retirees a year, their ages, etc? AARP? A lot of really
active senior citizens would like this, I think.
----
We'll definitely need to look up those stats.
Is there a way to address the number of retirees who don't speak
English? Like could they teach in their own language? Math might be a
difficulty there, though. I bet a lot of them -- especially women --
would like to teach language/culture classes within their community. But
don't know about math.
------
Well, for me, the driving goal of this is to get people who know things
filling desperately needed teaching positions in schools, with the emphasis
on serving the students. So my initial vision was to focus on getting
retirees like my dad -- engineers who know math and science but are done
with the day to days of work or face forced early retirement (ChemE uncle)
-- in front of students. And then if that works, you could worry about
reaching out to other retirees whose skill sets are not as obviously applied
(other language, knowledge of subject area for which there isn't demand).
Select your beachhead and conquer the vertical. Huzzah!
~lilly
numbers of retirees a year, their ages, etc? AARP? A lot of really
active senior citizens would like this, I think.
----
We'll definitely need to look up those stats.
Is there a way to address the number of retirees who don't speak
English? Like could they teach in their own language? Math might be a
difficulty there, though. I bet a lot of them -- especially women --
would like to teach language/culture classes within their community. But
don't know about math.
------
Well, for me, the driving goal of this is to get people who know things
filling desperately needed teaching positions in schools, with the emphasis
on serving the students. So my initial vision was to focus on getting
retirees like my dad -- engineers who know math and science but are done
with the day to days of work or face forced early retirement (ChemE uncle)
-- in front of students. And then if that works, you could worry about
reaching out to other retirees whose skill sets are not as obviously applied
(other language, knowledge of subject area for which there isn't demand).
Select your beachhead and conquer the vertical. Huzzah!
~lilly
Lilly,
That is a great idea, I think it could totally work but here are a few things to think about. A large portion of the elderly population (65-older) have some form of physical ailments coupled with varying degrees of memory loss. While math is a subject that I love and wish everyone else loved also, it may place a very high strain on the mental facilities of a large portion of the people you’re targeting. Maybe think about they kind of impact they could have at a younger level (grade school or kindergarten) where the math requirements aren’t as taxing and the students are less rebellious. Another option is to look at different subjects that they might be better suited for (i.e. History or English)
Ok, that is my half-baked brain dumpJ
Pedram
That is a great idea, I think it could totally work but here are a few things to think about. A large portion of the elderly population (65-older) have some form of physical ailments coupled with varying degrees of memory loss. While math is a subject that I love and wish everyone else loved also, it may place a very high strain on the mental facilities of a large portion of the people you’re targeting. Maybe think about they kind of impact they could have at a younger level (grade school or kindergarten) where the math requirements aren’t as taxing and the students are less rebellious. Another option is to look at different subjects that they might be better suited for (i.e. History or English)
Ok, that is my half-baked brain dumpJ
Pedram
Yay!!! This dialogue is great. Really interesting idea Lilly. Sorry i hadnt posted yet, I acutally have a presentation on education policy this afternoon. Anyways, I attached two REALLY intersting articles on how entrepreneurship can help education and an idea paper that i am submitting to for my social entrepreneurship lecture series. I definitley like the idea of retirees as teachers, I just think we need to think about some of the training issues, etc that programs like Teach For America get criticized for. I think that throwing older adults into the classroom without preparation is just as bad an idea as 23 year olds, especially given youth culture today....
Donielle
Donielle
Hi all. This is a centralized place where we can discuss our e-ship venture.
Saturday, December 06, 2003
I guess I was just thinking that maybe retirees wouldn't need the money
and that money could go to something else? But, then again if our
purpose is to help in the provision of qualified teachers, that's not
really relevant. I do like the idea of hiring them as full time teachers
because a lot of retirees or people forced into early retirement
complain that no one will hire them. Where can we get numbers on like
numbers of retirees a year, their ages, etc? AARP? A lot of really
active senior citizens would like this, I think.
Is there a way to address the number of retirees who don't speak
English? Like could they teach in their own language? Math might be a
difficulty there, though. I bet a lot of them -- especially women --
would like to teach language/culture classes within their community. But
don't know about math.
I agree we should sit and brainstorm sometime.
- Roma
and that money could go to something else? But, then again if our
purpose is to help in the provision of qualified teachers, that's not
really relevant. I do like the idea of hiring them as full time teachers
because a lot of retirees or people forced into early retirement
complain that no one will hire them. Where can we get numbers on like
numbers of retirees a year, their ages, etc? AARP? A lot of really
active senior citizens would like this, I think.
Is there a way to address the number of retirees who don't speak
English? Like could they teach in their own language? Math might be a
difficulty there, though. I bet a lot of them -- especially women --
would like to teach language/culture classes within their community. But
don't know about math.
I agree we should sit and brainstorm sometime.
- Roma
Friday, December 05, 2003
one thought: i don't know if retired folks would do this because of some
monetary benefit. so then there's the question of compensation because i
don't think there would be enough motivation to do this if there wasn't
any. maybe just a small stipend? that's obviously more than social
security? or some sort of credit for medicare or something? problem with
that is it involves government, and that's never fun. ok, just thinking on
email.
Yeah, in anything that resembled a full- or part-time commitment, I would imagine they would be paid salaries commensurate with an entry teacher or whatever they have for teachers with experience already. We might just be the facilitation and support for those entering that system, but I wasn't thinking we'd replace any part of the public school hiring system. Perhaps help them improve it a bit?
I think it's possible that they might be willing to do much smaller commitments without pay though -- tutoring once a week or something.
there's also the question of making sure the elderly are "fit" to teach.
and i don't mean that in a disrespectful way at all. i'm just thinking
that whenever we had a semi-old teacher in high school, everyone would get
a kick out of calling him/her senile. so i feel like any program
incorporating retired folks into teaching would meet with a lot of
scrutiny. how is that adressed?
I'm just thinking of a physics teacher I had in high school named mr mcgeehee. He's retired now. I don't know how old he was when he was my teacher, but he sure looked at least 65. He was a grizzled sparkplug.
But your point is valuable because that was AP Physics. The rude students I met in high school were in the regular track classes. (Obviously not all of those students were rude. :) )
- lilly
monetary benefit. so then there's the question of compensation because i
don't think there would be enough motivation to do this if there wasn't
any. maybe just a small stipend? that's obviously more than social
security? or some sort of credit for medicare or something? problem with
that is it involves government, and that's never fun. ok, just thinking on
email.
Yeah, in anything that resembled a full- or part-time commitment, I would imagine they would be paid salaries commensurate with an entry teacher or whatever they have for teachers with experience already. We might just be the facilitation and support for those entering that system, but I wasn't thinking we'd replace any part of the public school hiring system. Perhaps help them improve it a bit?
I think it's possible that they might be willing to do much smaller commitments without pay though -- tutoring once a week or something.
there's also the question of making sure the elderly are "fit" to teach.
and i don't mean that in a disrespectful way at all. i'm just thinking
that whenever we had a semi-old teacher in high school, everyone would get
a kick out of calling him/her senile. so i feel like any program
incorporating retired folks into teaching would meet with a lot of
scrutiny. how is that adressed?
I'm just thinking of a physics teacher I had in high school named mr mcgeehee. He's retired now. I don't know how old he was when he was my teacher, but he sure looked at least 65. He was a grizzled sparkplug.
But your point is valuable because that was AP Physics. The rude students I met in high school were in the regular track classes. (Obviously not all of those students were rude. :) )
- lilly
Wednesday, December 03, 2003
one thought: i don't know if retired folks would do this because of some
monetary benefit. so then there's the question of compensation because i
don't think there would be enough motivation to do this if there wasn't
any. maybe just a small stipend? that's obviously more than social
security? or some sort of credit for medicare or something? problem with
that is it involves government, and that's never fun. ok, just thinking on
email.
there's also the question of making sure the elderly are "fit" to teach.
and i don't mean that in a disrespectful way at all. i'm just thinking
that whenever we had a semi-old teacher in high school, everyone would get
a kick out of calling him/her senile. so i feel like any program
incorporating retired folks into teaching would meet with a lot of
scrutiny. how is that adressed?
- Roma
monetary benefit. so then there's the question of compensation because i
don't think there would be enough motivation to do this if there wasn't
any. maybe just a small stipend? that's obviously more than social
security? or some sort of credit for medicare or something? problem with
that is it involves government, and that's never fun. ok, just thinking on
email.
there's also the question of making sure the elderly are "fit" to teach.
and i don't mean that in a disrespectful way at all. i'm just thinking
that whenever we had a semi-old teacher in high school, everyone would get
a kick out of calling him/her senile. so i feel like any program
incorporating retired folks into teaching would meet with a lot of
scrutiny. how is that adressed?
- Roma
This sounds like a really interesting idea!!!
What a great way to make retirement meaningful and to close the circle of
life (okay that was cheesy).
Em
What a great way to make retirement meaningful and to close the circle of
life (okay that was cheesy).
Em
Tuesday, December 02, 2003
Yeah, the beneficial side effects of giving the elderly an outlet to stay active, pass on knowledge, and get treated with the dignity they deserve seemed like an additional benefit, making this a win-win.
Another possible idea is something less high-commitment than a teaching job -- channeling their energy into tutoring or something, perhaps?
Possible problems I can see?
- I don't actually know any retired elderly people who speak english :) so I'm missing some real world reality check perspective.
- How would teachers unions feel about this?
- It's not like teaching is an easy job. One article I read cited extremely high turnover in teachers (citing examples of a few who quit within the first month) because they felt overwhelmed, placed in classrooms of special education training before they even knew how to deal with conventional students, for example. I see the high school context as being the most likely place for such placements to be successful.
Forging forth (sorta), ways we can help direct retirees into the teaching force?
- advocate for programs that take experience into account to make the credentialing process more relevant to current teacher demand (According to http://www.calteach.com/require/ba01.html, even with experience, you still need to fulfill a whole lot of requirements that seem to include programs you have to pay for.)
- provide affinity groups for experienced teachers to support each other
- work with organizations like AARP or local grassroots organizations with older demographics to drum up enthusiasm and then be ready with resources
- ???
I'm sure there are tons of people who know more about this than I do, most of you included. :) I guess next steps would be:
- talking to profs around here who know something about this sort of thing
- interview some retired folks to see what their concerns about this sort of thing would be, or how interested they would be in working (but with interviews done in a way that doesn't get you "oh, that's a nice idea!")
- I can ping my old high school counselor in so cal to get ideas from her. She used to be the counselor for my section of the alphabet ;) and she's a cool lady.
~lilly
Another possible idea is something less high-commitment than a teaching job -- channeling their energy into tutoring or something, perhaps?
Possible problems I can see?
- I don't actually know any retired elderly people who speak english :) so I'm missing some real world reality check perspective.
- How would teachers unions feel about this?
- It's not like teaching is an easy job. One article I read cited extremely high turnover in teachers (citing examples of a few who quit within the first month) because they felt overwhelmed, placed in classrooms of special education training before they even knew how to deal with conventional students, for example. I see the high school context as being the most likely place for such placements to be successful.
Forging forth (sorta), ways we can help direct retirees into the teaching force?
- advocate for programs that take experience into account to make the credentialing process more relevant to current teacher demand (According to http://www.calteach.com/require/ba01.html, even with experience, you still need to fulfill a whole lot of requirements that seem to include programs you have to pay for.)
- provide affinity groups for experienced teachers to support each other
- work with organizations like AARP or local grassroots organizations with older demographics to drum up enthusiasm and then be ready with resources
- ???
I'm sure there are tons of people who know more about this than I do, most of you included. :) I guess next steps would be:
- talking to profs around here who know something about this sort of thing
- interview some retired folks to see what their concerns about this sort of thing would be, or how interested they would be in working (but with interviews done in a way that doesn't get you "oh, that's a nice idea!")
- I can ping my old high school counselor in so cal to get ideas from her. She used to be the counselor for my section of the alphabet ;) and she's a cool lady.
~lilly
Monday, December 01, 2003
Hey, I think this is a really neat idea! I like it because I feel like
there've been all sorts of projects to get youth/the elderly (well,
maybe not even the elderly but the older) to interact. Also, there's the
whole notion that the elderly have no dignity in this country/feel
useless/don't get enough respect.
This maybe an older group than the group that could help kids with math.
What about a retired version of Teach for America? Problem there is once
established, people don't like to move.
What else? I have heard of the military program, and they sell it as a
good thing. I don't know. I'll think on it. But I am interested.
I don't want to do my portfolio!!!
there've been all sorts of projects to get youth/the elderly (well,
maybe not even the elderly but the older) to interact. Also, there's the
whole notion that the elderly have no dignity in this country/feel
useless/don't get enough respect.
This maybe an older group than the group that could help kids with math.
What about a retired version of Teach for America? Problem there is once
established, people don't like to move.
What else? I have heard of the military program, and they sell it as a
good thing. I don't know. I'll think on it. But I am interested.
I don't want to do my portfolio!!!
Hi all! I'm not sure who is on this list, but I think it's at least Roma, Donielle, Justin S, and Emily. (Anyone else out there? :) )
So tonight at the MFP celebration, I was talking to Will Cain, a friend who also is MFP 2000(?), about the problem of getting really good math teachers into schools. I'm motivated by my cousin, who now has a psychological barrier to doing math far more impeding than any weakness in knowledge. I got lucky in the honors track, getting awesome math teachers, so that opportunity opened many doors to me once I got to college. (If your math is weak, so many fields will cause you problems.)
What makes it so hard to have good teachers for things like math and computer science? My impression is that their are lucrative career options available elsewhere. But in the US, lifespans are growing and people have much longer, more active retirement lives. I wonder what kind of impact we could make by facilitating and supporting retirees entering the teaching force?
I did about 20 minutes of Google searching and found no mention of civilian retirees entering teaching, though the military *does* have a program to send its retirees into schools that has met with great success.
I'm just throwing this out there as an idea. I think I'll probably research it further, maybe with an eye towards vetting it in the social e-ship competition? Anyone interested? Thoughts?
~lilly
So tonight at the MFP celebration, I was talking to Will Cain, a friend who also is MFP 2000(?), about the problem of getting really good math teachers into schools. I'm motivated by my cousin, who now has a psychological barrier to doing math far more impeding than any weakness in knowledge. I got lucky in the honors track, getting awesome math teachers, so that opportunity opened many doors to me once I got to college. (If your math is weak, so many fields will cause you problems.)
What makes it so hard to have good teachers for things like math and computer science? My impression is that their are lucrative career options available elsewhere. But in the US, lifespans are growing and people have much longer, more active retirement lives. I wonder what kind of impact we could make by facilitating and supporting retirees entering the teaching force?
I did about 20 minutes of Google searching and found no mention of civilian retirees entering teaching, though the military *does* have a program to send its retirees into schools that has met with great success.
I'm just throwing this out there as an idea. I think I'll probably research it further, maybe with an eye towards vetting it in the social e-ship competition? Anyone interested? Thoughts?
~lilly
